And the tree gets the message, and it sends a message back and says, "Yeah, I can do that.". So it wasn't touching the dirt at all. They were actually JENNIFER FRAZER: Tubes. -- they spring way up high in the air. So I don't have a problem. ROBERT: Truth is, I think on this point she's got a -- she's right. Well, maybe. The bell, the meat and the salivation. LINCOLN TAIZ: It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. ROBERT: And we saw this in the Bronx. I don't want that.". And every day that goes by, I have less of an issue from the day before. You found exactly what the plants would do under your circumstances which were, I don't know, let's say a bit more tumultuous than mine. If you look at a root under a microscope, what you see is all these thousands of feelers like hairs on your head looking for water. This way there is often more questions than answers, but that's part of the fun as well. ROBERT: They remembered what had happened three days before, that dropping didn't hurt, that they didn't have to fold up. ROY HALLING: The last kind of part of the root gets tangled just around the edge. So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes She found that the one stimulus that would be perfect was A little fan. It's gone. And if you don't have one, by default you can't do much in general. So what do we have in our ears that we use to hear sound? It's a family business. This is the plant and pipe mystery. ROBERT: So you just did what Pavlov did to a plant. ], [ROY HALLING: With help from Alexandra Leigh Young, Jackson Roach and Charu Sinha. JAD: So we're up to experiment two now, are we not? And I'm wondering whether Monica is gonna run into, as she tries to make plants more animal-like, whether she's just going to run into this malice from the scientific -- I'm just wondering, do you share any of that? And the -- I'm gonna mix metaphors here, the webs it weaves. And so of course, that was only the beginning. So she decided to conduct her experiment. It doesn't ROBERT: I know, I know. They definitely don't have a brain. JAD: And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? This is by the way, what her entire family had done, her dad and her grandparents. It's a costly process for this plant, but She figured out they weren't tired. Yeah. ROBERT: And some of them, this is Lincoln Taiz LINCOLN TAIZ: I'm a professor emeritus of plant biology at UC Santa Cruz. ROBERT: Apparently, bears park themselves in places and grab fish out of the water, and then, you know, take a bite and then throw the carcass down on the ground. ROBERT: So after much trial and error with click and hums and buzzes MONICA GAGLIANO: All sorts of randomness. You know, one of those little jeweler's glasses? Along with a home-inspection duo, a science writer, and some enterprising scientists at Princeton University, we turn our brain-centered worldview on its head through a series of clever experiments that show plants doing things we never would've imagined. MONICA GAGLIANO: Pretty much like the concept of Pavlov with his dog applied. And Jigs at some point just runs off into the woods, just maybe to chase a rabbit. Or it could be like, "Okay, I'm not doing so well, so I'm gonna hide this down here in my ceiling.". No. That's a parade I'll show up for. To remember? JAD: Couldn't it just be an entirely different interpretation here? It's yours." I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. To remember? She determined that you can pick a little computer fan and blow it on a pea plant for pretty much ever and the pea plant would be utterly indifferent to the whole thing. In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. It's a very interesting experiment, and I really want to see whether it's correct or not. And his idea was to see if he could condition these dogs to associate that food would be coming from the sound of a bell. Listen to Radiolab: Smarty Plants, an episode of Wilderness Radio, easily on Podbay - the best podcast player on the web. Visit your local Culver City PetSmart store for essential pet supplies like food, treats and more from top brands. You found exactly what the plants would do under your circumstances which were, I don't know, let's say a bit more tumultuous than mine. Oh, one more thing. ALVIN UBELL: Testing one, two. ROBERT: Five, four, three, two, one, drop! Well, people have been measuring this in different forests and ecosystems around the world, and the estimate is anywhere from 20 to 80 percent will go into the ground. Both aiming at the pea plant from the same direction, and the pea plant leans toward them. The same one that are used in computers like, you know, really tiny. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. ROBERT: Inspector Tail is his name. Or No. And the plant still went to the place where the pipe was not even in the dirt? ROBERT: Suzanne says she's not sure if the tree is running the show and saying like, you know, "Give it to the new guy." They may have this intelligence, maybe we're just not smart enough yet to figure it out. And then I needed to -- the difficulty I guess, of the experiment was to find something that will be quite irrelevant and really meant nothing to the plant to start with. But the Ubells have noticed that even if a tree is 10 or 20, 30 yards away from the water pipe, for some reason the tree roots creep with uncanny regularity straight toward the water pipe. And I need a bird, a lot of birds, actually. No matter how amazing I think that the results are, for some reason people just don't think plants are interesting. Parsons' Observational Practices Lab Talking About Seeing Symposium. LATIF: Yeah. And then when times are hard, that fungi will give me my sugar back and I can start growing again. LARRY UBELL: It's not leaking. Again. But we don't know. But I wonder if her using these metaphors is perhaps a very creative way of looking at -- looking at a plant, and therefore leads her to make -- make up these experiments that those who wouldn't think the way she would would ever make up. Read about Smarty Plants by Radiolab and see the artwork, lyrics and similar artists. LINCOLN TAIZ: I think you can be open-minded but still objective. The roots of this tree of course can go any way they want to go. All right. And with these two stimuli, she put the plants, the little pea plants through a kind of training regime. Isn't -- doesn't -- don't professors begin to start falling out of chairs when that word gets used regarding plants? LATIF: It's like Snow White and The Seven Tubes or something. ROBERT: And on this particular day, she's with the whole family. Except in this case instead of a chair, they've got a little plant-sized box. And then all the other ones go in the same direction. As soon as we labeled them, we used the Geiger counter to -- and ran it up and down the trees, and we could tell that they were hot, they were boo boo boo boo boo, right? How does it know which way to turn and grow its roots so that it can find the water? Pics! The part where the water pipe was, the pipe was on the outside of the pot? And there was a lot of skepticism at the time. ROBERT: Like, would they figure it out faster this time? SUZANNE SIMARD: No, so for example, lignin is important for making a tree stand up straight. This is the headphones? This is the headphones? And if you go to too many rock concerts, you can break these hairs and that leads to permanent hearing loss, which is bad. Because after dropping them 60 times, she then shook them left to right and they instantly folded up again. ALVIN UBELL: The tree will wrap its roots around that pipe. ROBERT: There's -- on the science side, there's a real suspicion of anything that's anthropomorphizing a plant. Then Monica hoists the plant back up again and drops it again. Or even learn? They need light to grow. So we're really -- like this is -- we're really at the very beginning of this. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. So he brought them some meat. MONICA GAGLIANO: Landing very comfortably onto a padded base made of foam. It's about how plants learn, or adapt, or even listen, the way humans do (though scientists really don't seem to know how). It's as if the individual trees were somehow thinking ahead to the needs of the whole forest. Big thanks to Aatish Bhatia, to Sharon De La Cruz and to Peter Landgren at Princeton University's Council on Science and Technology. And she goes on to argue that had we been a little bit more steady and a little bit more consistent, the plants would have learned and would have remembered the lesson. ROBERT: So light is -- if you shine light on a plant you're, like, feeding it? He'd fallen in. So I don't have a problem. We dropped. You give me -- like, I want wind, birds, chipmunks Like, I'm not, like, your sound puppet here. I mean, couldn't it just be like that? Gone. You need the nutrients that are in the soil. That's the place where I remember things. So let's go to the first. ROBERT: So maybe could you just describe it just briefly just what you did? Plants are really underrated. So you just did what Pavlov did to a plant. MONICA GAGLIANO: Exactly, which is pretty amazing. Because what she does next is three days later, she takes these plants back into the lab. And is it as dramatic in the opposite direction? But we are in the home inspection business. That was my reaction. Like, as in the fish. And you don't see it anywhere. ", So the deer's like, "Oh, well. Would you say that the plant is seeing the sun? And they're digging and digging and digging. Same as the Pavlov. The idea was to drop them again just to see, like, the difference between the first time you learn something and the next time. And if you just touch it ROBERT: You can actually watch this cascade ROBERT: Where all the leaves close in, like do do do do do do. The plants would always grow towards the light. We're carefully examining the roots of this oak tree. If a nosy deer happens to bump into it, the mimosa plant Curls all its leaves up against its stem. However, if that's all they had was carbon That's Roy again. ROBERT: And she says she began to notice things that, you know, one wouldn't really expect. And so why is that? Five, four, three, two, one, drop! ROBERT: So we strapped in our mimosa plant. ROBERT: They would salivate and then eat the meat. It's a costly process for this plant, but ROBERT: She figured out they weren't tired. Actually that's good advice for anyone. So you can -- you can see this is like a game of telephone. This episode was produced by Annie McEwen. I think there are some cases where romanticizing something could possibly lead you to some interesting results. I don't really need it all right now. Like the bell for the dog. No. In a tangling of spaghetti-like, almost a -- and each one of those lines of spaghetti is squeezing a little bit. The water is still in there. Picture one of those parachute drops that they have at the -- at state fairs or amusement parks where you're hoisted up to the top. 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